BlogBreak

By Call it Like it is

August 7, 2008 8:15 AM | Link to this

Yes,

Recently, I was sitting at my desk in which I overheard several female employees talking about breast feeding and child birth.

I could only imagine if several males were all gathered around discussing sex or a dirty joke -where we would all be at the end of the day?

There are differences in the work place -meaning, females get a pass when it comes to general treatment from most male bosses -along with Human Resources as well.

Anyone else, or is this just me?

By no1sperfect

August 7, 2008 8:56 AM | Link to this

Yes, I (male) have been treated differently by my female superiors. Sexism, like racism, swings both ways. My boss’ boss had a chip on her shoulder because she felt that she was not getting a fair shake from her boss (male), so she treated all the men in her department like crap. Two wrongs do not make a right. I know for a fact that a female received two salary increases in a six month period, one for a promotion, and one for an annual increase. I also received a promotional increase (which I had to fight for and document facts). On the promotion salary increase form, it documented that I would receive an annual review/increase in a few months at annual review time. This was signed by my boss, the female boss, her boss, and HR. Annual review time arrived, and nothing happened. I set up a meeting to discuss, and was told to my face that they did not give two raises in a year, despite what the signed form said. HR of course backed the female boss. This was my first lesson that HR is not the employee’s advocate, but the company’s “CYA”. In summary, Call it Like it is is correct. The lowest employee on the company ladder is the white, middle aged male. Nobody gets any government bonus points for us, but we sure are valuable when you need coverage for pregnancy leave.

By Chris Salzmann

August 7, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

Are you kidding me? You equate discussions about breast-feeding and child birth with “locker-room” sex talk among guys? So you equate the acts of breast-feeding and child birth as variations of sexual intercourse. It’s interesting because both the acts you mentioned involve a child. Sure sounds like its you who has a problem here. BTW, I’m a guy, 42, married with kids.

By GeoffDawg

August 7, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

Generally speaking, I think women tend to be more apt to report problems in the workforce and men being men more likely to bottle it up and ignore it so who can really say which scenario is more likely. At my place of work, I can say that there are several programs offered aimed at improving work skills and management training tailored exclusively for women with no corresponding opportunities only for men.

By JB

August 7, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

Women are treated much better than men even if the boss is male or female. Male bosses treat females better because they are scared they will be accused of sexual harrassment and female bosses treat female employees better because they have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to men. I have experienced both first hand.

By Muffin

August 7, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

The males in our office are treated like crap by our male boss/business owner. I think because he considers them “buddies” he feels more comfortable yelling at them and chiding them for behavior he deems wrong (it usually is not wrong by the way, he’s just got a serious attitude problem). The females never get yelled at, because he’s scared he’ll make them cry and he just couldn’t handle that. They get “talked to” if there’s a problem whereas he yells at the males and humiliates them for the entire office to hear. It’s really rather ridiculous.

By JohnnyReb

August 7, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

On the entry to middle levels, men (especially Whites) take a backseat to females. Due to socialist-minded “affirmative actions” & Marxist spawned diversity programs, the workforce (like government schools) has become watered down & more qualified workers get shafted. I think Corporations make most of their quotas on the entry to mid level.

It’s not just relegated to the workplace. All around, men (especially the White Man) is demonized by culture. Turn on TV, these God-awful sitcoms always portray White Men as bumbling, bafoons where the woman/wife is the sharp, saavy, beautiful “brains” of the family. The same is true in most commercials. And don’t even get me started on the “Caste System” in sports! http://www.castefootball.us

By KC

August 7, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

I think you are missing the point. The situation has nothing to do with the general level of politeness and courtesy given by men to women, but with whether men & women are treated differently with regards to promotions, raises, and opportunity. And the answer to that is strongly, YES. Historically and presently, men are more likely to be promoted, receive higher raises, and advance up the latter far faster them women with equal education, experience, and drive. Why? Because we are a male dominated society. And if a male boss looks at Tom, who has a wife and kid, and empathises with him more so then Mary, who has a working husband and kid, or is a single mom…It’s not hard to guess who’s getting the top billing. I’ve seen it happen time and time again.

By WorkingWoman

August 7, 2008 9:59 AM | Link to this

Woman are NOT treated better than men in the technology/engineering fields. I work with a bunch of pigs and they say whatever they want and never get reprimanded. Then you are treated like a “dumb girl” on top of that. I might be hot, but yes…I do have a brain. I think it just depends on the company. My company is run by all men, so piggish behavior is accepted.

By GeoffDawg

August 7, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

JohnnyReb has a good point - at my company, women make up the majority of the “middle management” while men are about 75% of the upper executives. This promotion practice is probably tied to a desire for positive PR as well as a proactive measure to avoid possible litigation.

I’ve read studies showing that it is mostly true that men and women working the same job don’t typically make the same salary. However, this is often offset by the fact that many women will interrupt or put on hold their careers in favor of being stay at home moms for a time. Everything being equal, this accounts for the relative disadvantage in salary structure. Women who work full time with no breaks are very close to men in compensation levels.

By Jason

August 7, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

“I might be hot, but yes…I do have a brain.”

Anyone who says this is clearly vacuous.

By CommunistAJC

August 7, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

Do women get treated differently? Hell yes! I work with a lot of women who are absolutely lazy and they still have jobs. Don’t even get me started on women of color. I’ve worked with a lot of women of color and most, not all, come in late, run side businesses, take 2 hour lunches and leave early. Anyone want to disagree with me, fine, but you better make a good argument besides playing the race card. oh, and leave the Nazi claim out as well.

By Edward

August 7, 2008 11:03 AM | Link to this

This is a joke, right? I have seen women cry at work and get by with it, can you imagine what would happen if a man did that. No one has the bar set higher for them than a white male. We’re expected to be better at anything than anyone else. We cannot ever get by with things that women and non-whites of any race can get by with.

By Make me laugh

August 7, 2008 11:20 AM | Link to this

No one can get by with knowing so little about their jobs and their work performances be so low as black women where I work. And God forbide you try to say something to them, you’re at HR the next day defending yourself and then forced to sit through bogus diversity films that mean nothing. Its like a welfare system where I work, a few people carry the masses, workload wise. I agree that white males carry the burden of expecting to know more and be smarter, except maybe for Asians and Indians that are engineers.

By CommunistAJC

August 7, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Make me laugh, Have you ever noticed the similarities in diversity training films and communist reeducation camps? I can. Fact is the liberal morons of this country are so afraid of offending people.

By Call it Like it is

August 7, 2008 11:41 AM | Link to this

Agree, the Human Resource Department = the Gestapo of every organization.

To Chris:

No, I’m not equating discussions about breast-feeding and child birth with “locker-room” sex talk among guys?

What I was trying to do is make a point that both of these types of discussions should really not be taking place in the work environment. However, the subject of breast-feeding and child birth in reference to females is allowed whether or not the male counterpart may been made to feel uncomfortable or not, & you know it!

Sounds like you are what we refer as a Honey Do, rather than a Man!

Enough Said!

By scrappy

August 7, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Turn on TV, these God-awful sitcoms always portray White Men as bumbling, bafoons where the woman/wife is the sharp, saavy, beautiful “brains” of the family

Perhaps because this is the truth that is finially making it out in the open!

I am not just saying that to get you excited (although I hope it does),studies have recently shown that males are falling behind their female counterparts in our schools systems. Being “smart” has come to be known as being “girlie” for the boys. Perhaps we should have more stay at home Dads to influence their sons more!

By T

August 7, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Call it Like it is

Good point about breast feeding. I never saw it that way. Sexual harassment is based on perception. If it makes you uncomfortable, then it harms the work environment.

By v racer

August 7, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

I’m hot too. I have a brain. I’m a man. They should respect that I’m hot(probably really hot), that I have a brain and I’m a man. But, no luck, a woman owns the company and just wants to talk about breast feeding. Oh, yes, I support Obama.

By v racer

August 7, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

Just joking. Actually I’m a black woman and I’m just killing time during my two hour lunch break before I check out for another legal appointment.

By v racer

August 7, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

OK, the real truth is that I’m a gay man. I actually do all of the work around here. Got to, they are just looking for a reason to fire me.

By A. Nony Mouse

August 7, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this

I think perhaps the men of today are being punished for the sins of their fathers.
Men often feel like they must walk on egg shells around females in the office. However, females can basically get away with saying just about anything to/about/around men.
By the way I think talking about such things as reproductive habits in mixed company is in very poor form.

By recipient

August 7, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

Absolutely !! I thought I’d never see the day, but having interviewed for a position some several months ago, and by three women, I found it to be out there. I was asked “do you have a problem having a woman as a supervisor” ? Are you kidding me ? What did three women expect me to say ? That question was clearly designed to discriminate due to my gender. (And, frankly, it’s illegal to even ASK that question.)

Threat of an EEOC action later, I was finally hired (after getting legal counsel involved - not mine; theirs) but placed in an office that they knew they were going to close within the next year - and with 5 women on staff - no men. So, here I am now, having two months notice that I will be out of a job, and the company has nowhere to transfer me unless I relocate out of state. Three of the women are moving to other positions elsewhere.

Guess what ? I filed the EEOC action anyway - even though they tried to appease me.

It’s not a comfortable feeling, and I can understand how some women have felt being dealt this hand of cards.

By help

August 7, 2008 1:18 PM | Link to this

By Jason

August 7, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

“I might be hot, but yes…I do have a brain.”

Or maybe, she’s just smart AND hot. Why would that bother you? It’s not a crime.

By KJ

August 7, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Or maybe, she’s just smart AND hot.

Any woman who is both smart and hot would be too busy having every advantage in life to be b*** on here. She’s obviously not as hot/smart as she thinks she is.

By JB

August 7, 2008 2:10 PM | Link to this

Human Resources is the biggest joke of all. It is supposed to be for the employee but we all know who is paying their salaries. It is an insult to our intelligence.

By Jason

August 7, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

“Why would that bother you?”

I’m not bothered by women who are good-looking and intelligent; in fact, I’m attracted to them. I’ve just never heard a genuinely smart person, male or female, start a sentence by extraneously announcing how physically attractive they (think they) are. It’s a sign of shallowness, and shallowness is begotten by dimness.

By SA

August 7, 2008 3:01 PM | Link to this

Are you joking - Males (Especially White Males) are paying for every supposed sin done by the generations ahead of us. There’s networking groups for every unique individual type in the company along with quota’s for advancement. Try & have a “White Male” netwroking group?? It would get labled the KKK! Who’s the 1st group to be cut when surplus’ are announced, Young White males, “oh there easy to cut” they have no case when attempting to have the case reviewed legally. Not to mention all other categories can underperform their job & feel safe at work. Let a WM try that!

By JohnnyReb

August 7, 2008 4:09 PM | Link to this

SA, you’re right on the money. The White Man is clearly between the crosshairs of the Zionist controlled “mainstream” media, Corporate World & Hollyweird.

Hey scrappy, there’s also an agenda to water-down the government educational standards…especially in boys (more so in White boys). The Ruling Elite who pull the strings have pushed an agenda to feminize & disenpower the White Man via a never ending slew of methods. This nefarious agenda is evident in the workplace, classroom & via Madison Avenue.

http://www.cofcc.org

By UR Blind

August 8, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Hey, JohnnyReb, stop reading Aryan nation propaganda and look around. The “Ruling Elite” is a group of entirely white males. It has been proven time and time and time again that white girls are not given the same attention as white boys in schools—if they do well, it is because they have help at home and are dedicated. It has been proven time and time and time again that minorities suffer the very most in terms of poor educations. This is all a “nefarious agenda” (I am actually impressed you know the word nefarious) put in place hundreds of years ago by white men. All you white guys are just angry that you’re expected to work these days, rather than just having everything handed to you on a silver platter because you’re a white man. You (the white male) still get paid more than anyone else to do the same job, and you still hold over 90% of all executive positions in this country. So stop whining.

In my personal experience, women treat women worse in the work place than any man ever does.

V Racer, very funny. I doubt your point actually got through to very many people here, however.

By catlady

August 10, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

Call It: the word that jumps out at me from your first point is, you OVERHEARD the conversation. It was not directed at you, you were not part of the conversation, and (I hope) you accidently heard it. I would not expect anyone to govern their speech if I am eavesdropping on their conversation.

Now, should they have had the conversation in a more private place? Probably, given their co-worker’s propensity for eavesdropping!

In my experience, women are sometimes treated unfairly. However, so are those without children, who are expected to pull extra weight because of childcare issues of their colleagues. So are those whose colleagues are “cut a break” because of their skin tone or whatever.

I have been in a heavily male-dominated field: you gotta pick your battles. Sometimes I have done a lot of tooth-grinding.

By catlady

August 10, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

BTW, in schools that have tried to take away the advantage given to boys, the boys perceived that more equal treatment actually meant they were being discriminated against. That is, when half the attention was focused on females in history, for example, the boys felt there was “too much” time being spent on women. When boys’ ways of getting the teacher’s attention were not rewarded, the boys thought they were getting a bum deal.

By ron

August 11, 2008 3:22 AM | Link to this

During part of my career I worked with four female engineers.They were all paid commensurate salaries.They averaged 70% of the time on the job that their male co-workers put in.They had to take the children here, there, and everywhere.They were seldom available for overtime or weekend work because the children were scheduled for this or that. Two of the women quit after about a year to stay home with the children,one married and moved,never to work outside the home again and one stayed on the job.As far as I know,that one is still working 70& of her male co-workers hours and is still milking the system with the kids.

By Vicki

August 14, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

(I agree with Jason & KJ) I think unattractive women get the bad end of stick in the workplace (& in general but that’s another story for another day) I’ve had jobs where I was treated deifferently than my prettier co-workers, i.e.a stricter dress code for me only. For instance, I was told I MUST wear make-up (no one else had to) & my skirts had to be at least knee-length, while the other women could wear minis. By the way, I did not deal with the public face to face, at all

By Blue Devil

August 14, 2008 10:15 AM | Link to this

I agree that the young/white/male employee is an endangered species in white collar America. The reality is that the ability to circumnavigate the pitfalls created by HR departments, forced diversification, and “carrying the workload” is a training grounds for executive management. Those who can survive the BS in their earlier working years wind up as captains of their industry. So suck it up for a few years and laugh all the way to the bank when the mid-level manager who gave you grief early in your career is picking up your dry cleaning.